torbjoern
Apr 24, 11:56 PM
I don't think many atheists actually feel that a god absolutely does not exist. Atheism is simply the lack of a belief in a god but most atheists, I believe, are agnostic in the actual existence. While lacking in a belief about a god, most would keep an open mind on the issue or would say it's impossible to know either way.
Sense tells me that the truth value of God's existence is unknowable. However, in my opinion, it's not just unknowable but also totally irrelevant for how we should live. In other words, it is not important to know if there is a God or not. Is that closer to agnosticism or to atheism (if we separate these two notions completely)?
Sense tells me that the truth value of God's existence is unknowable. However, in my opinion, it's not just unknowable but also totally irrelevant for how we should live. In other words, it is not important to know if there is a God or not. Is that closer to agnosticism or to atheism (if we separate these two notions completely)?
dante@sisna.com
Sep 26, 11:58 AM
Can I ask a question? I'm a bit non-technical when it comes to things like this.
When particular apps aren't designed to use multiple processors � let's just say randomly, oooo... Adobe Illustrator, for example � what benefit would a machine like this have? Would it run exactly the same as on single processor of the same speed?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me. :)
In illustrator CS2 you would notice some improvement over a single processor machine on complex tasks such as use of the 3D tool and vector based special effects such as glow or shadow -- I would guess about 15% improvement -- I use illustrator daily and have tracked these processes via activity monitor.
I would bet that CS3 and versions after that will be optimized to use these processors.
I run Illustrator on a Quad G5 now and it makes a siginificant difference over the Dual G5's.
Bottom line is that if you're not doing long-form processor-intensive stuff such as 2D/3D animation rendering, video encoding, mathematical/scientific analysis, running simulations, etc. then you probably won't get much benefit from more than two cores (you'll be better off with two cores running at faster clock speeds). But if you are, eight cores will be fantastic.
I would disagree with this: My Quad G5 destroys the Dual 2.7 in Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, iMovie HD, etc. No contest. Both in single app use and especially multitasking.
I will be on this thread until the Mac Pro Clovertown option ships. :D
This is the Mac Pro I have been waiting for.
Amen! Me Too! Quad G5 is just fine for now!
When particular apps aren't designed to use multiple processors � let's just say randomly, oooo... Adobe Illustrator, for example � what benefit would a machine like this have? Would it run exactly the same as on single processor of the same speed?
Thanks to anyone who can clarify this for me. :)
In illustrator CS2 you would notice some improvement over a single processor machine on complex tasks such as use of the 3D tool and vector based special effects such as glow or shadow -- I would guess about 15% improvement -- I use illustrator daily and have tracked these processes via activity monitor.
I would bet that CS3 and versions after that will be optimized to use these processors.
I run Illustrator on a Quad G5 now and it makes a siginificant difference over the Dual G5's.
Bottom line is that if you're not doing long-form processor-intensive stuff such as 2D/3D animation rendering, video encoding, mathematical/scientific analysis, running simulations, etc. then you probably won't get much benefit from more than two cores (you'll be better off with two cores running at faster clock speeds). But if you are, eight cores will be fantastic.
I would disagree with this: My Quad G5 destroys the Dual 2.7 in Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, iMovie HD, etc. No contest. Both in single app use and especially multitasking.
I will be on this thread until the Mac Pro Clovertown option ships. :D
This is the Mac Pro I have been waiting for.
Amen! Me Too! Quad G5 is just fine for now!
I'mAMac
Aug 29, 04:15 PM
:eek:
Why the vitriol against Greenpeace? It appears that a lot of people on this forum HATE them. What have they done to deserve this?
I dont hate them i like what they are TRYING to do, they just aren't doing it.
Why the vitriol against Greenpeace? It appears that a lot of people on this forum HATE them. What have they done to deserve this?
I dont hate them i like what they are TRYING to do, they just aren't doing it.
miniConvert
Oct 7, 06:21 PM
Android should easily surpass the iPhone in market share, IMHO. So what?
It's an OS written to run on a multitude of hardware and is/will be heavily customised by both manufacturers and operators. Due to this I doubt it'll ever match the iPhone for quality, while in terms of market share it should clean up.
It's an OS written to run on a multitude of hardware and is/will be heavily customised by both manufacturers and operators. Due to this I doubt it'll ever match the iPhone for quality, while in terms of market share it should clean up.
AppliedVisual
Oct 26, 10:42 PM
[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Noone has mentioned the FSB concerns yet, which is weird.
Well I've mentioned it... In the other 8-cor Mac Pro thread. And I've brought it up more than once.
Yes, this should be a concern and those doing bandwidth-intense operations may find the FSB to be a bottleneck at times. Unless I've missed something along the way, the Mac Pro has an independent bus for each CPU, meaning that each quad core chip will get it's 1333MHz of data flow. I'll have to go check on this... If Apple is indeed stuffing two CPUs onto a single 1333MHz FSB, then there will be a serious problem. Because if I start running into bandwidth issues feeding multiple cores streams of HD video or animation frames, I'm not going to be happy.
Well I've mentioned it... In the other 8-cor Mac Pro thread. And I've brought it up more than once.
Yes, this should be a concern and those doing bandwidth-intense operations may find the FSB to be a bottleneck at times. Unless I've missed something along the way, the Mac Pro has an independent bus for each CPU, meaning that each quad core chip will get it's 1333MHz of data flow. I'll have to go check on this... If Apple is indeed stuffing two CPUs onto a single 1333MHz FSB, then there will be a serious problem. Because if I start running into bandwidth issues feeding multiple cores streams of HD video or animation frames, I'm not going to be happy.
M-5
Apr 15, 12:31 PM
I think one thing that would help the Gay community would be instead of focusing on how different they are focus on how much like everyone else they are. I live in one of the largest gay communities outside of San Fransisco, and as a straight male have nothing but the utmost respect and love for the Gay community. Its time though that they stepped up and said hey We are just like all of you!
No, I don't agree with this. The GLBT shouldn't have to try to live up to the heterosexual norms of society in order to be accepted. This is really similar to when heterosexuals say "I'm alright with gay people as long as I don't see them doing gay things." Its like saying that being gay is okay as long as a person's identity is hidden from the rest of society. No, it should be accepted, and the GLBT shouldn't have to live out the heteronormative image to be treated with the resepect and dignity that human beings deserve.
I love the message that it's alright to be who you are, and that you don't have to pretend you're straight to get some damn respect. I mean, I'm taking a university course focusing on Discriminaton in the Marketplace, and we've discussed many issues such as systemic racism primarily focusing on African Americans, or weight and ethnic discrimination. But this past week we were discussing how prevalent discrimination is against the GLBT, and there were some advertisements shown such as the Snickers Superbowl where two men eat the same snickers bar and end up having their lips meet in the middle. The ad ends with the men feeling disgusted and having to express their masculinity by ripping off their chest hair. I have several issues with this ad, such as the fact that homosexuality is still being displayed as something disgraceful and shameful that someone can't be associated with. Another is that the message is relayed that Gay men can't be masculine.
The second ad we saw was a McDonalds commercial where a boy is conversing on the phone with his boyfriend while looking at a class photo of both of them. When the boys father comes back with his McDonalds meals, the boy has to end up call and hear his dad ask him about "the ladies." The ad ends with some message such as "Come as you are." After the ad there were a bunch of giggles coming from guys laughing at the gay nature of the ad. It sickened me because of the fact that it was a class focusing on discrimination and the apparent homophobia was so prevalent amongst my peers. I also had issues with the ad, which actually left me feeling worse about myself at the end of it. First of all, the boy had to secretly speak to his partner and hang up the call before his father returned. Then he had to listen to his father ask him about his relationship with women while the boy has to dismiss his real identity from his father.
Ugh, and I also hate when people say "Why does the GLBT always say that we should be accepting towards them and their beliefs when on the other hand they're against people and religions who are against them; thats so hypocritical." I hate this statement because what the GLBT ask for and believe in is equality and acceptance and don't infringe on the rights of heterosexuals. While the belief that certain heterosexuals take on infringes on the rights of homosexuals and want unacceptance.
And being gay isn't some stupid hipster fad that some of you refer to it as.
No, I don't agree with this. The GLBT shouldn't have to try to live up to the heterosexual norms of society in order to be accepted. This is really similar to when heterosexuals say "I'm alright with gay people as long as I don't see them doing gay things." Its like saying that being gay is okay as long as a person's identity is hidden from the rest of society. No, it should be accepted, and the GLBT shouldn't have to live out the heteronormative image to be treated with the resepect and dignity that human beings deserve.
I love the message that it's alright to be who you are, and that you don't have to pretend you're straight to get some damn respect. I mean, I'm taking a university course focusing on Discriminaton in the Marketplace, and we've discussed many issues such as systemic racism primarily focusing on African Americans, or weight and ethnic discrimination. But this past week we were discussing how prevalent discrimination is against the GLBT, and there were some advertisements shown such as the Snickers Superbowl where two men eat the same snickers bar and end up having their lips meet in the middle. The ad ends with the men feeling disgusted and having to express their masculinity by ripping off their chest hair. I have several issues with this ad, such as the fact that homosexuality is still being displayed as something disgraceful and shameful that someone can't be associated with. Another is that the message is relayed that Gay men can't be masculine.
The second ad we saw was a McDonalds commercial where a boy is conversing on the phone with his boyfriend while looking at a class photo of both of them. When the boys father comes back with his McDonalds meals, the boy has to end up call and hear his dad ask him about "the ladies." The ad ends with some message such as "Come as you are." After the ad there were a bunch of giggles coming from guys laughing at the gay nature of the ad. It sickened me because of the fact that it was a class focusing on discrimination and the apparent homophobia was so prevalent amongst my peers. I also had issues with the ad, which actually left me feeling worse about myself at the end of it. First of all, the boy had to secretly speak to his partner and hang up the call before his father returned. Then he had to listen to his father ask him about his relationship with women while the boy has to dismiss his real identity from his father.
Ugh, and I also hate when people say "Why does the GLBT always say that we should be accepting towards them and their beliefs when on the other hand they're against people and religions who are against them; thats so hypocritical." I hate this statement because what the GLBT ask for and believe in is equality and acceptance and don't infringe on the rights of heterosexuals. While the belief that certain heterosexuals take on infringes on the rights of homosexuals and want unacceptance.
And being gay isn't some stupid hipster fad that some of you refer to it as.
TimUSCA
Sep 20, 02:01 PM
TiVo will also charge you $12.95 every month (or $299 every two years) for the rest of your life for the privilege of using their box.
It used to be $300 for a lifetime subscription on TiVo... they took it away though.
It used to be $300 for a lifetime subscription on TiVo... they took it away though.
edifyingGerbil
Apr 24, 06:32 PM
Maybe not in the New Testament, but certainly in the Old.
Nope, not in the Old Testament either. There is a recounting of events which say what happened, but there is no commandment from God to "urge the believers to battle. If there are among you 20 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 200...... And if there are among you 100 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 1000 of those who have disbelieved...(qur'an 8:65) to this day.
The New Testament Abrogates the Old Testament anyway, so it's not relevant to Christians.
Nope, not in the Old Testament either. There is a recounting of events which say what happened, but there is no commandment from God to "urge the believers to battle. If there are among you 20 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 200...... And if there are among you 100 [who are] steadfast, they will overcome 1000 of those who have disbelieved...(qur'an 8:65) to this day.
The New Testament Abrogates the Old Testament anyway, so it's not relevant to Christians.
samcraig
Mar 18, 12:04 PM
I agree.
I completely understand the idea that unlimited data should have to pay for tethering, although I think there should just be a cap prior to additional charges like verizon does.
What I dont understand is how they think charging tiered data customers for tethering is fair.
Agreed - and something I said several pages back...
I completely understand the idea that unlimited data should have to pay for tethering, although I think there should just be a cap prior to additional charges like verizon does.
What I dont understand is how they think charging tiered data customers for tethering is fair.
Agreed - and something I said several pages back...
Edge100
Apr 15, 12:45 PM
And marriage is legal in many parts of Europe between same sex couples
It's also legal here in Canada.
it is only the 3rd world and developing world that has the biggest issue with same sex marriage but as these countries always traditionally follow Europe expect the decline of religion as more and more people become educated, and with the decline of religion such nonsense as hating each over whom we love to also fade away.
And lets not forget most of the good 'ole US of A.
It's also legal here in Canada.
it is only the 3rd world and developing world that has the biggest issue with same sex marriage but as these countries always traditionally follow Europe expect the decline of religion as more and more people become educated, and with the decline of religion such nonsense as hating each over whom we love to also fade away.
And lets not forget most of the good 'ole US of A.
Eraserhead
Mar 27, 11:59 AM
And why do people who believe that stuff spend so much time and effort concerning themselves with homosexuality?
Its probably down to them being in the closet themselves.
Its probably down to them being in the closet themselves.
Chucho
May 17, 12:41 AM
I was having ~50% calls dropped with my iPhone. Bought a Nexus One, popped in the AT&T sim card from the iPhone and it has worked flawlessly.
AppliedVisual
Oct 14, 02:55 AM
I am so glad you tried and succeeded in getting that discount. That's great. Hope you didn't suffer too much brain damage ripping on that sales rep. Wish I could have heard that. lol. :p
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
Actually, I just played it pretty cool. I just told him that I overlooked the coupon and asked if they could apply it, since it would save me about $100. He started with the "I'm sorry, sir. But we can't apply coupons to prior purchases..." So I just went into the "OK, no problem then, I would like to cancel my current order and refuse shipment on it" Which they allow in their return policy. "...And I would like to place a new order for the 30" using this coupon." He kinda paused and made some sort of groaning noise and instinctually started to tell me I couldn't do that. But then he put me on hold for about two minutes, came back and agreed to apply the coupon. I think I realized that he couldn't stop me from doing the cancel and re-order routine and it was a waste of time for both of us and didn't help them out any. He probably needed a manager approval to apply the coupon or something.
Want to have a contest to see who can have their 8-Core Mac Pro delivered first? I will have to drive to Santa Clara 35 miles to buy an Apple gift card so I can complete my online purchase so you might be able to beat me.
Like I posted in the other thread, sure. :) I don't know how it will play out on this end either. I'm ready to buy today, but I'm also starting a fairly large project in about 2 weeks or so. Depending on that and budget restrictions I may buy once the 8-core systems arrive or I may wait. ...Not that I want to wait.
Please share with us what config you will buy and why. I plan on buying only the 1GB model and buying my RAM from Omni Optival - only 2 more GB. So far it looks like my multi-threaded apps do not use much ram at all while using up to 4 cores EACH. So they're RAM stingy and Core HOGS. I am not getting this for Photoshop but for compressing video in 2 to 4 simultaneous applications.
My 3D rendering is all over the place in terms of RAM requirements. However it tends to top out at about 2 to 4 GB for the most demanding scenes. Primarily I use Lightwave3D and a companion render plug-in called FPrime to do most of my rendering. FPrime is still limited to dual-threads or two cores under practicality and also is still a 32bit app. But on my quad-cores I run three instances of it at once and it seems to work out well. Two instances of it doesn't use all my RAM and seems to leave a CPU or two idle about 30% of the time. Hmmmm... As for Lightwave, it's also still a 32bit app with 32bit render node software that is very poorly multithreaded with most plug-ins for the renderer being single-threaded. So I tend to set up dedicated render nodes for each CPU core and dedicate 1GB to each. Works fairly well... I haven't found a real solid way to actually set CPU affinity for individual applications in OSX or at least not automatically when loading up the apps. I wrote a small utility on the PC that works in every version of Windows from NT4 up to Vista that assigns any combination of affinity to an app when launching it. I let people download it for free starting a couple years ago... Dumb move, it's been downloaded over 100,000 times. Should've charged $1.00 per download seeing how i write the thing in 10 minutes and it has a bug in the command line parser that I've never fixed.
Anyway, to answer the question, I'm planning to buy the 2.66GHz model - possibly the 2.33GHz depending on the price difference. If it looks like what you have figured, then I think the 2.66GHz will be worth it for me. I will buy the base RAM configuration and replace it with aftermarket RAM from whoever looks to have the best price/quality on their modules when the time comes. I'll get the x1900xt video card unless they offer something better in about the same price range. Bluetooth module, fiber channel card and I will upgrade the included HDD to the 500GB model. I'll probably pick up a second 500GB on my own and set the two up in a RAID-0 stripe to install the system on. It will connect to my Dell 30" (soon to be dual 30" hahaha) displays via the Gefen switchers. That way I can still switch between my Quad and my other PC and my MBP if I want to plug it in.
Oh, I'm planning on putting the included RAM on ebay since it will run at slower speed most likely. The 512MB FB-DIMMs don't run at the full bandwidth due to how the buffering works only 1GB and 2GB modules do. I plan to install 8GB RAM via 4x2GB modules.
miniConvert
Oct 7, 06:21 PM
Android should easily surpass the iPhone in market share, IMHO. So what?
It's an OS written to run on a multitude of hardware and is/will be heavily customised by both manufacturers and operators. Due to this I doubt it'll ever match the iPhone for quality, while in terms of market share it should clean up.
It's an OS written to run on a multitude of hardware and is/will be heavily customised by both manufacturers and operators. Due to this I doubt it'll ever match the iPhone for quality, while in terms of market share it should clean up.
milo
Apr 13, 11:13 AM
I think that most of them will find that Apple has, at present abandoned them.
Based on what? An assumption that Color is gone, based on...what?
But for Broadcast TV, it's a real step down in a lot of ways-- at the very least not a step up.. The interface is very iMovie.
Beyond the interface, how specifically is it a step down? What features have been removed?
...especially if they're getting rid of the rest of the FCS apps..
And is there any reason to believe they are getting rid of them, beyond jumping to conclusions?
I AM a full time film editor and I'm very disappointed by the imovie-esque move. There were a slew of features that REAL editors have been asking for for YEARS (better media management, better multi-user shared projects, and (FOR GOD'S SAKE) better trimming ability. Apple said "nah, f that" and just made iMovie with many of FCP's pro features.
From today's announcement, how do you know none of those new features are in there?
Bring on Logic X for said price and on the App store.
I'd be surprised to see Logic's 40 gigs of download on the app store, but who knows. How big was the last version of FCS?
I very much hope they are coming out with boxed version with printed manuals. Downloading pro apps or suit of pro apps from App Store without physical media or real manuals makes no sense.
Printed manuals? Seriously? What do you do, sit and read manuals on the toilet? Digital manuals are just as "real" and arguably better since it's easy to do text searches and find what you need quicker.
What are the chances that Logic X will be released around the same time?
From what I hear, not likely at all. At least if STP is updated along with FCP I hope it's available somehow to Logic users.
Based on what? An assumption that Color is gone, based on...what?
But for Broadcast TV, it's a real step down in a lot of ways-- at the very least not a step up.. The interface is very iMovie.
Beyond the interface, how specifically is it a step down? What features have been removed?
...especially if they're getting rid of the rest of the FCS apps..
And is there any reason to believe they are getting rid of them, beyond jumping to conclusions?
I AM a full time film editor and I'm very disappointed by the imovie-esque move. There were a slew of features that REAL editors have been asking for for YEARS (better media management, better multi-user shared projects, and (FOR GOD'S SAKE) better trimming ability. Apple said "nah, f that" and just made iMovie with many of FCP's pro features.
From today's announcement, how do you know none of those new features are in there?
Bring on Logic X for said price and on the App store.
I'd be surprised to see Logic's 40 gigs of download on the app store, but who knows. How big was the last version of FCS?
I very much hope they are coming out with boxed version with printed manuals. Downloading pro apps or suit of pro apps from App Store without physical media or real manuals makes no sense.
Printed manuals? Seriously? What do you do, sit and read manuals on the toilet? Digital manuals are just as "real" and arguably better since it's easy to do text searches and find what you need quicker.
What are the chances that Logic X will be released around the same time?
From what I hear, not likely at all. At least if STP is updated along with FCP I hope it's available somehow to Logic users.
Apple OC
Mar 11, 01:03 AM
Watching these Tsunami pictures on CNN ... I hope people will be OK.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Edit ... 2:15am watching it Live on CNN ... unbelievable footage
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/11/japan.quake/index.html?hpt=T1&iref=BN1
Edit ... 2:15am watching it Live on CNN ... unbelievable footage
citizenzen
Apr 23, 11:37 PM
Whatever:rolleyes: ... Like I care that you think I am an idiot ...
For what it's worth, I don't think you're an idiot.
You simply made a statement that I'm not willing to make.
For what it's worth, I don't think you're an idiot.
You simply made a statement that I'm not willing to make.
srxtr
Apr 20, 06:56 PM
so glad you think stealing an artists work is a proper and moral thing to do, plz stay on your platform, the rest of us will take the high road and pay an enormous fee of .99 to 1.29 per song...geez
+1
+1
Manic Mouse
Jul 13, 06:11 AM
Take a look at the iMac. Now, it's quite small, isn't it? Nice and thin, and silet as well. How are you planning to cool that 2.4GHz Conroe in a machine like that?
Like I said, my laptop has a hotter CPU in it. I've yet to hear a good argument as to why a Conroe is too hot to put in an iMac when they had G5's in them not so long ago. If a Macbook can handle 35W then the much much bigger and thicker iMac can handle 65W.
And why should Apple go for a whole different CPU, when they already have a great replacement for their current CPU: Merom. Only thing they need to do is to replace the current CPU with the new one. Conroe would take a lot more work.
Personally, being a consumer and not Steve Jobs, I couldn't care less if it's more work for them to design a new MoBo for Conroe. I put my money where the best performance is, not what's easiest for Apple.
Like I said, Conroes are cheaper than Meroms for the performance you can get. It would be sheer stupidity of Apple to put meroms in their desktop because it would cost them just as much to put them in there and they'd be getting lower performance. Which means iMacs would be over-priced and under-performing compared to any other desktop.
If that is true, then current iMac isn't competetive either. It's "overpriced" and "underperforming". Is that what you think?
Why do you think Apple laptops sell so much better? The Macbook, as it stands, is competitive in the market in terms of specs/price but also has all the lovely Apple design and extras. Which is why it's selling like hotcakes. The current iMac isn't competitive, and you'd be mad not to admit that. 512Mb RAM standard? Underclocked X1600 128Mb?
But all the things that are letting the iMac down now I fully expect to be upgraded in August, along with Conroe. Apple have demonstrated with the Macbook that they can offer Apple design at competitive prices. And it's something they'll have to do if they want to increase their market share.
Merom is the logical choice. It's a drop-in replacement, it runs cooler, it's about 20% faster, clock for clock...
It's also less powerful and more expensive (per Mhz) than Conroe. So it's logical for Apple to put a less powerful, more expensive CPU in their computers? Funny deffinition of logic.
If it's possible for apple to put Conroe in the iMac (and it is) then they will, because it makes economic sense to pay the same and get a better product for both Apple and consumers. I think the effort of designing a new MoBo would be more than worth that.
What I think will happen is that current 1.83 and 2Ghz Core Duo'w will be replaced by 2 and 2.13Ghz Meroms.
And when there are cheaper desktops with 2.4 and 2.6Ghz Conroes in them what will consumers buy? It doesn't make sense to pay more and get less, no matter how pretty the packaging is.
I intend to buy an iMac when I can get a 2.4Ghz Conroe in it. If they get Merom I simply will not buy one and buy a PC instead. Unless of course Apple unleash the "desktop" Mac everyone's talking about.
Like I said, my laptop has a hotter CPU in it. I've yet to hear a good argument as to why a Conroe is too hot to put in an iMac when they had G5's in them not so long ago. If a Macbook can handle 35W then the much much bigger and thicker iMac can handle 65W.
And why should Apple go for a whole different CPU, when they already have a great replacement for their current CPU: Merom. Only thing they need to do is to replace the current CPU with the new one. Conroe would take a lot more work.
Personally, being a consumer and not Steve Jobs, I couldn't care less if it's more work for them to design a new MoBo for Conroe. I put my money where the best performance is, not what's easiest for Apple.
Like I said, Conroes are cheaper than Meroms for the performance you can get. It would be sheer stupidity of Apple to put meroms in their desktop because it would cost them just as much to put them in there and they'd be getting lower performance. Which means iMacs would be over-priced and under-performing compared to any other desktop.
If that is true, then current iMac isn't competetive either. It's "overpriced" and "underperforming". Is that what you think?
Why do you think Apple laptops sell so much better? The Macbook, as it stands, is competitive in the market in terms of specs/price but also has all the lovely Apple design and extras. Which is why it's selling like hotcakes. The current iMac isn't competitive, and you'd be mad not to admit that. 512Mb RAM standard? Underclocked X1600 128Mb?
But all the things that are letting the iMac down now I fully expect to be upgraded in August, along with Conroe. Apple have demonstrated with the Macbook that they can offer Apple design at competitive prices. And it's something they'll have to do if they want to increase their market share.
Merom is the logical choice. It's a drop-in replacement, it runs cooler, it's about 20% faster, clock for clock...
It's also less powerful and more expensive (per Mhz) than Conroe. So it's logical for Apple to put a less powerful, more expensive CPU in their computers? Funny deffinition of logic.
If it's possible for apple to put Conroe in the iMac (and it is) then they will, because it makes economic sense to pay the same and get a better product for both Apple and consumers. I think the effort of designing a new MoBo would be more than worth that.
What I think will happen is that current 1.83 and 2Ghz Core Duo'w will be replaced by 2 and 2.13Ghz Meroms.
And when there are cheaper desktops with 2.4 and 2.6Ghz Conroes in them what will consumers buy? It doesn't make sense to pay more and get less, no matter how pretty the packaging is.
I intend to buy an iMac when I can get a 2.4Ghz Conroe in it. If they get Merom I simply will not buy one and buy a PC instead. Unless of course Apple unleash the "desktop" Mac everyone's talking about.
Kingsly
Sep 20, 01:13 AM
I didn't notice any TV inputs on the prototype, so unless Apple changes the design significantly and adds major features not discussed at the event, DVR is not a possibility (as far as this device is concerned).
...I suppose there is a small chance Apple could do this, but I'm tired of getting my hopes up only to be disappointed by Apple (again).
I don't think it would make sense to make a totally great� device and then cripple it by excluding DVR functionality (IMO they already crippled it by excluding DVD player)
...I suppose there is a small chance Apple could do this, but I'm tired of getting my hopes up only to be disappointed by Apple (again).
I don't think it would make sense to make a totally great� device and then cripple it by excluding DVR functionality (IMO they already crippled it by excluding DVD player)
tbrinkma
Apr 28, 08:27 AM
Right, but how is that not a fad? By definition, it doesn't matter how said fad ends, it simply means that it's overall existence is temporary.
I agree that it it was replaced by newer technology that does more, but it still was a fad in the end.
By that definition, the internal combustion engine is nothing but a fad. I think maybe you're just not familiar with what the word "fad" actually means Check it out: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fad
I agree that it it was replaced by newer technology that does more, but it still was a fad in the end.
By that definition, the internal combustion engine is nothing but a fad. I think maybe you're just not familiar with what the word "fad" actually means Check it out: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/fad
Thunderhawks
Apr 13, 07:13 AM
Ugh... you guys speak as if you are all full-time film editors...
The new features are amazing! The hall that they presented at, well they were pretty much all "pros" in the industry. They were all pretty much PSYCHED about these features..
For what it's worth, I'm a film production major...
Bet you that guy doesn't even know what he is talking about.
He just likes to rattle the (APPLE) cage:-)
He is addicted to MR and Apple and has a hard time to approve of anything Apple does.
Funny though he uses their products!
The new features are amazing! The hall that they presented at, well they were pretty much all "pros" in the industry. They were all pretty much PSYCHED about these features..
For what it's worth, I'm a film production major...
Bet you that guy doesn't even know what he is talking about.
He just likes to rattle the (APPLE) cage:-)
He is addicted to MR and Apple and has a hard time to approve of anything Apple does.
Funny though he uses their products!
gnasher729
Apr 21, 05:12 PM
I don't. I just don't have OS/X.
So for the record: Not only do you constantly post whatever negative things about Apple and Apple products come to your mind, but you actually have not the slightest clue what you are talking about?
So for the record: Not only do you constantly post whatever negative things about Apple and Apple products come to your mind, but you actually have not the slightest clue what you are talking about?
fat phil
Apr 13, 09:28 AM
The product looks good for what it is, and I read most of the comments here... while I'm not a video guy I am an artist and IT professional and I do have to agree that Apple is strangely moving away from the core pro market that was very loyal. I have seen more and more artists move back to PCs lately and even though I have been moving the other direction, I can't fully blame them.
I know Apple has a plan and they stick to their guns, but I just think they may be shooting themselves in the foot by going so fully consumer market. Avid has a lot more as far as hardcore features and scalability. Apple has basically dropped their server line and they are on a path of dumbing down many apps to fit a more iPad/App market. They are still powerful and "pro" apps but much of the scalability and truly "pro" features seem to be dwindling day by day. That's my concern.
I don't think they're deliberately setting out to hurt the Pro users in this case - they genuinely think they've found a better way to work. If it's true then it's all good.
Even if they were trying to open up the userbase, it doesn't take Stephen Hawkins to figure out why they'd want to.
2,000,000 Pro users @ $600
or
10,000,000 "casual" users + 2,000,000 Pro users @ $300
Yeah. I'd do it too...:)
I know Apple has a plan and they stick to their guns, but I just think they may be shooting themselves in the foot by going so fully consumer market. Avid has a lot more as far as hardcore features and scalability. Apple has basically dropped their server line and they are on a path of dumbing down many apps to fit a more iPad/App market. They are still powerful and "pro" apps but much of the scalability and truly "pro" features seem to be dwindling day by day. That's my concern.
I don't think they're deliberately setting out to hurt the Pro users in this case - they genuinely think they've found a better way to work. If it's true then it's all good.
Even if they were trying to open up the userbase, it doesn't take Stephen Hawkins to figure out why they'd want to.
2,000,000 Pro users @ $600
or
10,000,000 "casual" users + 2,000,000 Pro users @ $300
Yeah. I'd do it too...:)
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